The Listener 2.0

THE CONTROVERSY OVER RICH PASTORS!!!

HEEEEEEEEEERE WE GOOOOOOOO! This is a very sensitive topic to myself and many others but I see on the topics needed post that the discussion has already begun.

Are Pastors too rich? Is there such a thing? Let me begin this post by stating that my father is a Pastor so I’ve had this discussion with many people. Needless to say I belong to a wealthy family. We work hard for our income and I know the ins and outs of congregational operations very well. So with that said…let’s get to it.

For many years there has been speculation about where preachers (which is the term I’m going to use for the remainder of this post. I mean let’s be real…there’s way too many titles lol) get their money. I’m sure most of us have heard and in some cases experiencesd horror stories about a preacher who embezzled church donations to fund their expensive lifestyles. But what are we missing? What are the questions we are not asking ourselves? Are we the ones who are quick to judge? What makes a pastor too rich or too wealthy?

In the Bible many of God’s leaders lived like Kings and Queens. God’s true leaders never had to beg for bread or want for anything of this earth. Back then it was usually jealousy or sex that led to the downfall of many leaders not money. Today we see preachers driving fancy cars, living in mansions, and eating only the finest foods (none of that potted meat stuff). Many of us ask “where does all that money come from?” let’s get into the financial aspect of a ministry.

Ministry Finances:

For those of you who don’t know, the church is an organization. The primary purpose is to spread God’s word to as many people as possible while maintaining a healthy membership. The members are asked to donate money (i.e. offering) in order for the church to be economically sustainable. Donations often go to keeping the lights and heat on, paying the rental fee or mortgage on a building, and supplies for church events. Membership plays a vital and sometimes sole part in funding. Simply put, the more members a church has the more money there is to be donated. Many churches pay their leader for his or her services. The average pastor is on a bi-weekly salary (usually not exceeding $100,000 per year) just like a regular 9-5 and is expected to put in the same amount, if not more, work. The pastor’s job is very hard. He or she is expected to stay on top of messages, church events, finances, and of course dealing with “church folk” (like the 1 a.m. “pastor please pray for me I just backslid at the club” phone calls). It is not uncommon for the pastor’s full duties to go unnoticed and therefore unappreciated. This results in the speculation of finances and how the church leader uses his or her hard earned money.

 

Take my father, Apostle Rick Daniels, for example. We relocated to Milwaukee, WI from Charleston, SC back in 1995 to join a ministry based out of Illinois. My father was to take over the Milwaukee division which was a fairly big church but faced membership declination due to the previous pastor’s departure. To make a long story short, my father moved his entire ministerial staff to Wisconsin; set up shop, changed venues (which included a full renovated building) hired a full band and before you knew it membership went through the roof. By the end of 1996 we had over 600 members in our church. That year we moved into a new home, my father bought a brand new Lexus (man I miss that car) and made some family investments for our college education. But what the members didn’t know is that my father was also a marketing executive at the time for Xerox Corporation and my mother was a nurse at Columbia Family Care clinic which served as a secondary income.

 

 

It wasn’t long before the complaints began. Some of the members were upset about how big our home was and the car that my father drove. Some people left and some people stayed. As a pastor my father has always been candid about certain aspects of the church finances which include annual financial reports which are distributed at the beginning of each fiscal year.

 

 

 

 

How much is too much?

There are some pastors who keep it simple and there are some who go over the edge. For as long as I can remember there has been heavy controversy surrounding Bishop Darryl Hines of Christian Faith Fellowship Church in Milwaukee, WI. If you’re a member or have ever visited, you may agree that the church facility is nothing short of amazing. The sanctuary seats thousands; there is a church credit union, school, and even a homeless shelter all inside one complex. Some have argued that the church is too lavish. Like the plush carpeted seating, or the lights, stage, instruments, or jumbo screen. And then there is Bishop Hines. He lives in his own gated community, he owns a fleet of luxury cars, and usually is accompanied by a bodyguard (or in church terms “armor bearer”). There have been many rumors about where the church funds come from (see some of the comments under the “New Post Needed” post). One may ask, how can I concentrate on God when there are so many bells and whistles distracting me? God question right?

 

Many of us may have heard of celebrity pastors like Bishop T.D. Jakes, Paul S. Morton, or Joel Osteen. These are all Millionaire preachers with books, CDs, and even publishing deals that get the word of God to millions of people worldwide…and make them a fortune at the same time.

 

 

 

 Now that’s a big church!!!

What it means to me?

Personally I don’t think there is such a thing as “too much” for a person who preaches God’s word. As stated before, there is so much work that goes into the organization of a church there should be some type of compensation. Who are we to set limits? Who are we to judge? What I think creates the difference (PAY ATTENTION HERE…IF YOU DON’T READ ANYTHING ELSE I’VE WRITTEN) is people are sensitive about giving their money to God. If you think about all of the ungodly things we spend our money on like parties, liquor, and in some cases drugs, we don’t tell rappers how to live their lives, we don’t tell drug dealers how to stunt, and we wouldn’t dare petition to shut down the liquor store. So what makes it such a big deal when preachers buy fancy things? I’ll tell you, people don’t want their hard earned money, which they feel they are giving to the Lord, going to personal expenses. And when that is the case then the church members (who are the owners of the church) do in fact have the power to tell their leader how to live. That’s just how it is.

 

So what do you think? Have you had a bad money experience with a preacher? Or are you just one of the bandwagon people who think all preachers steal money? Let me hear it.

 

 

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July 23, 2008 - Posted by | Uncategorized

37 Comments »

  1. I agree with everything you said except that the church members are owners of the church.

    The christian is to give to their local church, period. God’s spirit should be leading on how the money gets spent.
    If either of those arn’t happening the church has problems. It’s God’s church he’ll take care of it one way or another.

    Comment by Sean | September 15, 2008 | Reply

  2. I do believe that all the congregation should have the liberty to give as they want to, not compelled or manipulated to give 10%. In that all the monies to the church should be used to distribute FIRST to the saints as they have a need. If a church who has gathered vast amounts from a congregation that is already struggling, then that ministry should have the good heart, love and charity to meet that need of those so that their struggle is eased.
    Some scriptures to convict you;
    Matthew 6:19-21 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
    Matthew 19:21 “Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
    Luke 12:33 “Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys.”
    1 Timothy 6:18-19 “Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.”

    Comment by Peter | March 4, 2009 | Reply

  3. Wealthy is relative. I’ll just define wealthy as someone whose income ranks in the 75th percentile for their congregation.

    And keep in mind that pastors have a special tax loophole that you and I don’t. They get a large portion of their salary in the form of a housing allowance which is tax free. Pretty, good right? It gets better (for them). They can also deduct their mortgage interest. So, basically, pastors pay way less than the average person in taxes. Kind of unfair, huh?

    So, why do we pay certain people a lot of money? Simple. They would not stick around if we didn’t. And we want them to stay.

    Now the question I have is, do we really want as our spiritual leaders those people who only stick around whose motivation is the income that puts them into the “wealthy” bracket?

    Do we want young people considering ministry as a vocation because it pays well?

    , while still being able to write off their mortgage interest.–something just about no

    Comment by Lance | May 8, 2009 | Reply

  4. READ THE GOSPEL…..READ THE DICTIONARY…..RICH MEANS IN EXCESS…Jesus never lived above his followers

    “Pick up your cross…deny yourself”
    follow me you might not have a place to lay your head
    dont take a money purse or money with you
    Paul said money will pervert the gospel
    book of timothy…..one who wants to be a minister should not have a desire for MONEY!!!
    IN THE BOOK OF ACTS: THEY DISTRIBUTED ALL THE RESOURCES SO NOT ONE WAS IN NEED!!!! WHAT CHURCH DOES THAT?
    THE RICH HAD TO SELL THEIR PROPERTY…..HEY RICH PASTOR WHY DONT YOU SELL A FEW OF YOUR MILLION DOLLAR HOMES SO SOME POOR PEOPLE IN YOUR CHURCH CAN HAVE AS MUCH AS YOU!
    In the end times people will be lovers of money….
    Jesus took the vowel of poverty….WILL YOU MR SELF PROCLAIMED APOSTLE?
    Jesus tole the RICH GUY to give it all away to follow him….can you?
    Your all just a bunch of money hungry idiots CASHING IN ON CHRIST by manipulating weak people.

    Comment by YOurCarnal | November 21, 2009 | Reply

  5. Pastors, especially the African one-will be the first to enter hell. They are truly wicked people-exploiting Jesus to make money. Jesus said he was the way. Did he hoard possessions. NO He did not. For Pastors, Christianity is a business. Let them enjoy this life-which is short. If I am given the opportunity-I will be the first to push thse people into hell.

    Comment by Fatahi | December 11, 2009 | Reply

  6. Many African pastors-do not understand the message of Jesus.
    This has come about-because the Europeans do not understand the psyche of Africans. Africans can be very gullible. The pastor uses his position to enslave the flock. He thinks he can exploit people-for his own ends. He does not realise that he has been given a position to lead people to the truth. Jesus wanted people to follow GOD. Corruption has set into Christianity-which ib fact is only a pagan religiion-which worships a created man. God is the creator-he can never be a man.

    Comment by Fatahi | December 11, 2009 | Reply

  7. pastors live in big villas while common church folks goes around having to stress and work hard. If there is a God, If there is a Jesus, then God will know and he’ll judge these money seeking pastors. But it really hurts me to see them in their mansions while common folks struggle. Well? Gods will right?

    Comment by I did Good son. | January 12, 2010 | Reply

  8. I don’t believe we should blindly cover our eyes and pretend. If my pastor was working hard and had a job on the side, I would not be in his business. Truly. What bothers me is this:
    Pastors that guilt their congregations into a legalistic way of understanding God and giving. Telling them that God will reward their tithes and offerings and instilling fear, forgetting that we are under grace and not allowing the holy spirit to convict us in our giving. Not correctly teaching what the tithe is, or mentioning that it is not mandated for the new testament church. Making people feel like they disappoint God if they can’t give something, and encouraging people to give what they cannot.
    Many pastors have forgotten about 2 cor 9:7:
    “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” The under compulsion can also be translated in other versions to mean, out of necessity or hardship.
    My sister was a faithful tither, but when she applied for church aid, they never even responded and she was evicted. I feel like, you can tithe all day, but if you negelct the people of God, it is very pharisee like to think he will be pleased with you. My motto is this: Be a generous giver in church (may or may not = 10%, may be more), be hospitable to those who need it, give to the poor, pray for the sick, tip well for people’s services (a group of holy high rollers in expensive suits who leave $2 on the table for an after church IHOP trip are not gonna convict souls to Christ.)Take care of family before they have to crawl to you in shame. That is my take. If we did that, we would have a far better reach in this society.

    Comment by TH | February 18, 2010 | Reply

  9. My pastor is pretty wealthy. That used to bother me a lot. But after getting over it, it became pretty obvious to me that he was a humble guy filled with the spirit – which is a rarity.

    I think some people feel spiritually inadequate when they compare themselves to rich pastors. Say that you have two Christians in one room, both of them are trying their best to seek out God. One is a rich pastor, the other is a poor person who is part of the congregation. The congregation member might feel like God has abandoned them or cruel for allowing them to suffer and want more in life. They might feel like they’re not as important in His eyes, or that He’s playing favorites. Humans associate success with being rich for ages. However, Adam and Eve (who I considered very rich) had no money, roamed around naked, worked as gardeners, and ate food from the earth.

    The important thing to remember is that God considers his churches to be one body. The bride of Christ. The pastor might be part of the bride’s mouth, the congregation might be a part of her brain or hands. Without one or the other, you wouldn’t be able to function right. Our pastor makes sure we know this. He tells us all the time, “This is your home. You’re safe here. We just want you guys to know we wouldn’t be here without you.” He puts effort into letting us know that we are a loved member of God’s body, functioning for God.

    Plus, my pastor has a different calling and personality than I do. He is extroverted, loud, and charismatic. I am introverted, shy, and empathetic. He feels a sense of fulfillment preaching to many. I feel a sense of fulfillment identifying with someone one-on-one.

    I’ve also been exposed to both social classes – which helps. God showed me the difference between being rich vs. being spiritually rich. Most (not all) rich people are unsatisfied. After they’ve accomplished the feat of becoming rich, do everything they want to do, and buy everything they want – they start wondering why they’re alive. My Grandparents were rich and chased money. The last couple years of my Grandma’s life you could tell something was missing. She looked lost. When she died, she questioned everything she had ever valued, and wondered if she would have been happier poor. My Grandpa was a hardcore business man who was in love with money, enjoyed manipulating people with it. Unfortunately, when he died nobody made it to to his deathbed on time. And since he couldn’t bring his money with him, he made sure he died with nothing.

    Comment by Faith87 | March 24, 2010 | Reply

  10. I think, it IS possible for rich pastors to be true servants of God. But very very very rare.

    Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. – Matthew 19:24

    Comment by Faith87 | March 24, 2010 | Reply

  11. In the Bible it says to whom much is given much is expected therefore if pastors have money to purchase jets, luxurious homes, and cars are they followers of Christ or followers of Capitalism. Jesus lived a modest life so why can’t preachers? Because he had many more people to save and seeking him out. Now a days pastors delegate many of their respolnsibilities and love that golf and money making. They need to be eaout GOD’s business saving souls and providing means for the poor to obtain a decent life by extending their financial gain to the city, state, and nternationally. This is doing GOD’s work by not giving a man a fish but teaching and providing the tools forthe man to fish so that they may eat a lifetime or a decent life and enable the pastor to lead a modest life not a materialistic one.

    Comment by Sherry | June 16, 2010 | Reply

    • I like that. Modest means. Yes.
      My family member is a retired pastor and well off… my wife and I have little, have worked at churches, and I am chronicly ill. Well, this family member promised to help us MOVE our things to an apartment. Last minute, he cancelled.

      So I had to rush to unload our U-haul. I went to the ER the next day from exhaustion. My parents are wealthy and they were going to hire movers. Instead got HIM to do for FREE. The “rich” are obsessed with loss MORE than the poor, aka, “thankful and dependant on God in FAITH”.

      Besides being poor and without a normal “job” my health problems are judged as a lack of salvation spirit or what not.

      I am EMBARRASSED and ASHAMED to have family who claim to “love God” & yet we are abandoned and slandered. I do not ask churches for help because family MUST… the Bible says not to burden the church… but that was almost 2000 years ago. My parents are too uptight to reason with. America penalizes those who marry now.

      So I pray sometimes that if we must die neglected, that we die well… as I used to work for UPS and Evraz Steel. Injured, sick, poor, feeling despised… I will not manipulate or curse my parents, nor steal and somehow we make it.

      I am impressed by the body of Christ as it is in spirit. Buildings, cars and cash are just ding dong items.

      Comment by syntaxsinner | June 18, 2014 | Reply

  12. This kind of issue happens everywhere. It also happens here in Indonesia. Once I came to a local charismatic church, the pastor didn’t like me when he knew how much money I earned and how much I gave to the church. He didn’t talk to me the way before he had known the fact.
    In another church where I am the member of it, each week or two they give my wife and me 2 envelopes with our names so that they know how much money we donate to the church and how much we tithe.
    I don’t mind donation, but the way churches get the donation sometimes makes me wonder is that really God’s will? (When you give something, never let your other hand know it) Sometimes this makes me think to believe in God without going to church.

    Comment by tejo santoso | July 17, 2010 | Reply

  13. this has been hurting me for a very very long time.The bible in malachi BRING YOUR TITHES FORTH SO THAT THEY MAYBE FOOB IN MY HOUSE.I think the misunderstanding is there, Pastors think that this house the bible is talking about is their hous, but no-this means the less priviledged people in the church.

    Comment by mushuza | September 14, 2010 | Reply

  14. There should never be rich pastors.

    I am all for pastors being paid to survive and possibly retire. But having luxury cars and homes is wrong.

    It’s sad that so many pastors exploit people.

    Ask yourselves: Why would a holy man need a 60k car and 500k home? Why?

    Comment by Mark | January 28, 2011 | Reply

    • i agree with you; i am a member of a very small church with lots of people in need. my pastor just purchased another house for about $650K and purchased a brand new audi for his teenage daughter who just got the driver’s license. we don’t even have our own church; we pay rent to another church & we only have one service on sunday afternoon. he and his wife both have jobs & they make a lot of money, but because they are pastor & pastor’s wife, they should be wise in spending their money when people in our congregation are hurting financially. there isn’t anything wrong with spending their money they earned, but because of their position in society of in the church, they should set some example for people to follow, but there aren’t any…… sadly, people are leaving the church because they don’t see the qualities as a pastor from our pastor…..

      Comment by shilohsuzy | September 30, 2011 | Reply

  15. In most of these comments, the truth has been eluded.
    Most people have a problem with a particular pastor or group of them. However, every person/Pastor is not the same.

    I know some pastors who are barely makings ends meet, and they are still wolves in sheep clothing. (treacherous!!)

    Also, Not many people have address the fact that some pastors have made their own money, and I mean not from selling you a book, cd, dvd,etc.
    They just make good business decisions!!

    They Don’t Even Qualify For This Thrashing!!

    Let’s be truthful here, Some PEOPLE Are Good & Some PEOPLE Are Bad!!

    Also, the comment about African American Pastors doesn’t add up when you look at the news. Color doesn’t make you a terrible pastor, Decisions Do!!

    Take the time to find out about someone before passing judgement or incorrectly throwing around scriptures….

    If you slow down, you may find that the person is actually a Pastor after Gods Heart, and they don’t get paid enough!! After looking at some of the comments on here, it gives you an idea of what they have to deal with.. Then they have to turn around and still be obedient to God and minister to you, after your comments…. I’ve seen this happen with my own eyes!!!!

    Be Careful not to damage someone with the very words that would break your own heart, if they were said about you or someone you love….

    I expect a Pastor to act a certain way, because they say they love God and are supposed to be obeying him. Therefore they are to show that Godly love to everyone else.

    Well, They Should Expect The Same From US!!

    ****This post does not apply to the crooks or wolves. BTW– Make sure they are one before you label them. If not, then You Are Lying On A Pastor That’s True To God, & You Will Have To Answer To GOD For That!!

    After reading this, if you’ve seen that you have harshly judged another person, repent. Just ask God to forgive you and help you to love and support his true leaders and not be fooled by the false ones.

    If you ask for his forgiveness, he’ll forgive you and cleanse you of all unrighteousness, because He Loves You!! & So Do I…. 🙂

    God Bless!!

    Comment by ISupportTruth | March 23, 2011 | Reply

  16. Here is a pastor that says he is a billionaire and he is proud of it!

    http://www.informationnigeria.org/2011/06/i-am-a-billionaire-declares-pastor-adefarasin.html

    “I am a billionaire and there is nothing anybody can do about it,” Pastor Adefarasin boasted yesterday as he preached in an N8.5 million a day auditorium at the Eko Hotel and Suites in Victoria Island, Lagos, Southwest Nigeria.
    “I have coached many billionaires and you know, the pastor of billionaires is a billionaire,” Adefarasin who was not included among the five richest pastors in Nigeria by a blogger with Forbes, the influential American magazine that keeps a tab on the world’s rich.
    The Forbes blogger, Mfonobong Nsehe, had said that after intense research, he established that the official wealth of Bishop David Oyedepo, Chris Oyakhilome, TB Joshua, Matthew Ashimolowo and Chris Okotie, Nigeria’s five richest pastors, is between N31 and 37 billion.
    But, TB Joshua of the Synagogue Church Of All Nations has denied the report, saying that he does not even keep a bank account and cannot save billions in the bank while millions are going hungry.
    “The preacher of billionaire can only be a billionaire because a monkey cannot give birth to a goat and a goat cannot follow a baboon,” Adefarasin, who is completing a multi-billion naira church in Lekki, said as he adjusted his cute Italian suit.
    “I am a preacher. I am a motivational speaker. I am a TV personality. I am a life coach. You can criticise me or slander me in the pages of newspapers but the blessings are in me and there is nothing anyone can do about it,” he said.
    Adefarasin, who preached on Phillipians 2:6-14 with the theme ‘Work It Out’, said that when he was still a drug addict in Miami, United States, with a low self esteem, he never imagined that he could financially achieve so much for himself and the ministry.
    “I was a nobody. I had a low self esteem but God did it for me. If God can make it for me, he can make it for you,” Adefarasin said amidst boisterous ovations.
    To become a billionaire, Christians must simply imagine it, ask and realise that money, blessing and favour are already in them. All they need is to ‘work out’ what ‘God has already worked in’.
    “Some of you do not see that you are already billionaires but there is a difference between to create and to unveil. God will simply unveil your billions to you as he did to me,” he said to an elated and expectant congregation.

    Comment by Teleayo | June 21, 2011 | Reply

  17. I wonder about the vow of poverty and they all drive Mercedes, or BMW. Live in Mansions. Wearing diamonds all over and some Pastors have ear rings and diamond rings on every finger. Wearing 1,000.00
    suits. I was having a program and went the Pastor for a donation for disadvantaged youth. He told me he doesn’t have a dollar and that he was broke. He received 60,000.00 for his Pastor Appreciation. He is very critical about people. He does not have love or compassion for his people. I believe he is a false prophet folling people but one thing God knows. He just bought a new Mercedes. What is a matter with this picture.

    Comment by strongly confused | July 22, 2011 | Reply

  18. Funny, if Pastor Daniels is so rich, why doesn’t he pay his bills. I have had his old phone number for 3 years and there are still people calling EVERYDAY to get their money. What a laughing crock of shit.

    Comment by Me | September 16, 2011 | Reply

  19. When it comes to funding nobody does it better than jehovah witness

    Comment by Pedro | September 18, 2011 | Reply

  20. The bible states, “Sell all you have and have everything in common, go from house to house breaking bread an see added to the church Dailey” If you tell a pastor to sell all he has he’s going to think your crazy lol… But this is why the church lacks Annointing ( ANNOINTING NOT EMOTION AN ENERGY) Cuz they want to hoard up treasure on earth just cuz they think they deserve it. They don’t. There called to do the work of a servant not live like a king because they make people “Feel good”….. WE NEED A REAL REVIVAL IN AMERICA! PRAY FOR REVIVAL!

    Comment by Joshua | January 7, 2012 | Reply

  21. RICH PASTORS?? WHAT ARE YOU A IDIOT?? FOCUS ON GODS WORD NOT POSESSIONS.WHICH PART OF GODS WORD YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND FOOL.

    Comment by FRANCISCO LUNA | May 30, 2012 | Reply

  22. FOOL ABOVE GOD CAN BLESS YOU AS RICH PASTOR ,BUT DO NOT FORGET ALSO THE DEVIL CAN BLESS YOU.

    Comment by FRANCISCO LUNA | May 30, 2012 | Reply

  23. A man is known by his stewardship of God’s resources. When I see that the Christian Faith Fellowship Church here in Milwaukee owns at least 16 properties in the area surrounding the main church building and that they owe back taxes to the City of Milwaukee on those properties, they are assuming others (our family included) are going to cover the cost of city services. When those costs rise to cover those who don’t pay their fair share, WE are unable to increase our tithe to our church. There may be need for someone to take a look at how the resources God’s people are trusting that church to handle are being managed. It DOES chafe some when folks see the outward flashy lifestyle. Anyone who has lived a bit knows, though, all that can be hiding a hot mess in other (unseen) areas of their lives…”All that glitters is not gold” and that God knows the intent of the heart and what motivates us all to do the things we do, seen and unseen. That’s all that really matters.

    Comment by K.G.Milwaukee | October 8, 2012 | Reply

  24. first offering is not donation, 2ndly church members are not owner. From scripture God ordained it that His offering should go to His as a reward for their service Number 18. If you have problem with the luxurious lifestyle go to God. Just like un just steward was punished so will God. Again read Gal 6.6 , 1cor 9 and roman 15.27

    Comment by mark | March 22, 2013 | Reply

  25. If they were preaching the cross, they would not have the multitudes who fill their coffers following them. They are rich because they preach a fleshly message to a fleshly people who only desire to have their ears tickled.

    Comment by Michael Wrenn | July 6, 2013 | Reply

  26. The words “hard work” has many different levels.As a Brick Mason I have built many churches and ALWAYS been expected to due it for less than my other jobs. Bricklayers wrote the book on hard work! I was wondering would you consider being paid less for your job? Unless you can convince me otherwise I have my doubts that you would. Also, I would like to add, the information I have read on your posts and others, leads me to believe that the church is a business. I believe Jesus would not be happy with the way man has turned his name into a business for profit.

    Comment by Barry | August 29, 2013 | Reply

  27. sorry for the typo…meant do it for less.

    Comment by Barry | August 29, 2013 | Reply

  28. This is Richard from South Africa, I like your comments man of God, and clearly you indicate all the responsibilities that goes through the Church as an “organization” and clearly again I like the point where beliveres or non-believers won’t do petition to shut down the liquor stores. Now my say ….. I am Black by peoples defination, I am a follower of christ not of an organization, I am taught and guided which I am still by the word of God that we indeed as children of God not supposed to suffer when it comes to food or water, for the Lord provides accordingly for us each day, I want you to learn this..do not look at this matter with your physical feeling to be eager to respond, but ask the Holy Spirit to guide you and show you my say to you here I go…Those people you are refering to of the past they shared food amongst themselves even the extend of going out to give to the power…not to self enrich, they were taught even to the point of selling their house so they may live togather and share everything with one and another. (Refer to the apostles) now when you finish to spiritually here my simplicity say. You will note what I have said to your heart not toyour soul. Be blessed Man of God.

    Comment by Richard | September 9, 2013 | Reply

  29. remember, many will be left behind, unsaved, and false profits. but i would not attend a church, nor tithe to a church, with an unclean pastor, and you know what i mean.

    Comment by lurch | October 15, 2013 | Reply

  30. Dear in Lord, Jesus,
    I am Brother mokaya from Kenya,fellow-shipping under a shade with 21 members.The lord spoke peacefully in my heart and gave me a responsibility to serve Him and the community in Kenya.I started to serve Him 5 years as at now.I have given my life unto the Lord to use me as a vessel to His Holy work.As i walk daily to serve my community,My wife judy and I, preached at our home village during the dark days of our village. Many were laughing and scorning to us, however, we prayed for them as we kept on preaching….i meet many challenges especially for the orphans whose parents are dead .It took me time to think of what shall i do about these situation,finally,i talked with my wife and prayed to God to give me direction on what to do.The Lord spoke to me to gather these orphans into one place to and be their father by caring them,thank my deceased father for supporting me so much to have this orphans under my care.I have so far 31 sickly and healthy
    orphans together.
    They need the basic needs like a home where they stay permanently,they need food,they need school fees,uniforms,books,clothing ,health and others.When this orphans becomes sick as most of them are prone to sickness,the government health facility is far from where they stay and thus needs traveling or any means to save their lives by fast movement to a health facility.
    REQUEST
    I am kindly hereby requesting you to consider to assist this orphans and add them to your grant list as i am at risk of closing it down since my father who was my main supporter has died.And also request for affiliation so that God`s message can reach the unreached hear in my community and my neighbors with God`s word.
    AIM
    To show love of God and support the orphans
    MISSION
    To reach many people with the true message of God, Make our community better for God`s people to live in and show mercy and kindness to less privileged in the community.
    CONCLUSION.
    I kindly invite you to come to Kenya any time you may find convenient to you and come and see us.
    Thank you ,i hope to seeing a reply from you. May God bless you.
    brother Pastor oruru willis

    Comment by willis oruru | May 2, 2014 | Reply

  31. I was curious to see what your point was, but I found your lengthy post to go in a circle… answering your own questions as you produced them. It makes me more concerned, not less- that people are too motivated to organize silly lifestyles after a lot of “hard work”. For one, I’d buy a Hummer, not a Lambrogini… if I was going to show a practicality to my mania. If a pastor gets too much money, that would make him forget God. Bible says that. Has any pastor? I don’t know. People can be poor. Begging for bread- Lazarus begged and when he died did not go to hell. Some other guy did. Someone who did not share. Rhymes with stitch… oh… the RICH man went to hell. Interesting. Does that have to do with money riches? Hmm. Who knows.

    Comment by syntaxsinner | June 18, 2014 | Reply

  32. Was not religion introduced to bilk the “Masses” out of their hard earned money? It’s the greatest SCAM of the World.

    If religion is not a scam, why are historians and archeologist finding so much of the religious material to be either forged, made up by writers or changed by scribes. Sure they might have had good intentions, but much of the reason was to belittle and look down upon various groups, including WOMEN, RACES, NATIONALITIES, people with sexual preferences other than theirs and just about anybody who didn’t buy the malarky they wanted to portray as “The Truth, the Light and the Way”. In fact it was just a way for money and power, providing religious groups to promote their way of life, teach the children, not allow for new thinking and making any sense of the the Mythology.

    Paul was said to be an apostle, but never even knew Jesus. Now his many writings are believed by most to be forgeries.

    Not only Christianity, but Jews, Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, etc. try to get folks to believe their way is the “Righteous Path”. Our history is marked with wars and much other waste from glorifying something that’s not there, just for the wealth of the church, synagogue, temple, cathedral, Bascilica, etc.

    It makes more sense to believe that Ancient Aliens brought new ways, trying to promote peace on earth, instead of the crap believed so many thousands of years later.

    World Peace can only be possible when people finally decide to come together – He wanted it that way. But we must think War is the Way – Look back in history friends, War never solved anything.

    Comment by John | September 4, 2014 | Reply

  33. This no a comment but i just want my life to come out from poverty.thats all iwant i dint know where to start

    Comment by edmore | April 30, 2015 | Reply

  34. This is a huge problem in USA. At Mercy Hill Church in Milwaukee, Pastor Tommy Orlando is using church contributions for his whole family to go on a trip every summer to Italy. He actually got up on the stage and said “Yes.. A 3-year old can be a missionary.” (His children were 3, 6 and 12 and they all go on a “missions” trip to Padua, Italy every year – along with his wife. ) Then, they have the nerve to tell the parishioners that the church is in financial deficit and ask for more $$!!! The first summer he did this, his co – pastor got up and asked the church to pay for Pastor Orlando’s $10K medical bills he had recently incurred because the church could not afford health insurance for the pastor. The parishioners obliged; yet, at the same time he could not pay his medical bills, he and his wife were using some $12K of church contributions to go to Italy!

    I no longer give any $$ to this church. I asked for an annual financial statement and they looked like me like I came from the moon!

    MORAL: OBSERVE HOW YOUR MONEY IS BEING SPENT; IF NO ANNUAL, DETAILED FINANCIAL STATEMENT GIVEN – D O N O T G I V E !!!

    Comment by Outraged | April 17, 2016 | Reply

  35. I know that sowing into the kingdom of God is good for me because it protects me from the devour and the windows of heaven has opened and poured out as promised. I give because it makes me happy I never cared about how it was used. I am wise enough to know when the enemy is trying to distract me. I love you all God bless you!

    Comment by Bonnie | August 27, 2016 | Reply


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